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Pastor Bob Stith--
Lynchburg and Beyond
Lynchburg SoulForce and Exgays
Pastor Bob's first message to  Maggie " Keep contending for the truth"

We came straight from Living Waters training. We attended the first Soul Force gathering. 

We spent Saturday afternoon mingling with protesters from both sides and with the news media. At night we debriefed with Maggie, Steve and other Soul Force delegates. 

Then on Sunday the ex-gay minister and the conservative Southern Baptist pastor and ex-gay ministry board member attended a conservative Christian church where the only people we knew were gay rights activists. 

WHAT A WEEK!!!

 

Lynchburg and Beyond
-- a thread from the Exodus General List

From Pastor Bob Stith
To: "Exodus International General Discussion" 
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 19:13:27 -0500 
Subject: [exodusgen-l] Re: Lynchburg and beyond pt. 1 

Pastor Bob writes:
 It is impossible for me to write about Lynchburg without the impact of the Living Waters conference the week before. I had always thought no worship I had ever experienced compared with Exodus but this week was right there. I think had no one said a word I would have gone away well pleased just with the worship and fellowship. When the communion service ended I didn't want to leave. And if I did have to leave I wanted to go home and not into the pressure cooker that seemed to await in Lynchburg. During that week and even at this moment I have been almost overwhelmed with the sense of His awesome presence. 

 So it was that we arrived in Lynchburg to late to go to our motel. Randy and I had gotten the impression that Mel White would not be overjoyed with our presence in Lynchburg. I totally understood this and was in no way offended by it. Had I been in Mel's place I probably wouldn't have wanted us there either. 

So it was with some trepidation that we allowed Maggie to secure us the necessary credentials to attend the initial Soul Force gathering. 

Feeling very much like an unwelcome guest we were somewhat relieved when Steve S. got up and came to sit with us. (Which shows how freaked out we were.) Perhaps it was the "drum major" instinct (the desire to lead every parade, be the bride at every wedding and the corpse at every funeral) but we were convinced that Mel looked in our direction more than would have been coincidental. I recognized that it was an interfaith service but I became more uncomfortable with the references to Buddha, Gandhi, et al in a way that seemed to equate them with Jesus. Steve and Maggie said they didn't sense that. Of course I was also a little uncomfortable with the seemingly unqualified acceptance of anything gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, and/or transgendered. To me, there seemed not to be any kind of a standard.

(I will write a more complete overall analysis of my impressions of the purpose for the gathering later but for now I want to just share general impressions.)

 The next day Randy and I drove to Thomas Road Baptist Church. We weren't sure what we were to do. We had credentials to get in but felt that we were to be outside. (We are probably the only two people on earth who were in attendance at the inaugural Soul Force meeting, on the sidewalks the next day and in both services at Thomas Road on Sunday - including the Michael Johnston service.) The discomfort of the night before was nothing compared to the absolute horror and sense of evil and depravity outside the church. I had heard of Fred Phelps and company but I don't think anything can prepare you for being present. What was even more frightening was that Freddie Boy and his gang were not the scariest group there. 

As Randy stopped to ask Freddie a question I watched two "church ladies" singing a hymn. Nice hymn. Nice voices. Incredibly vile signs in their hands. Nor were these spiritual giants limiting themselves to their signs. They were quite loud and boisterous. Several young lesbians were in attendance and were the target for quite a bit of "christian encouragement" and "witnessing." I just can't understand why they didn't fall to their knees right there and pray to the god represented by these folk. Admittedly the girls were not exactly reticent. They were definitely flaunting it. But nothing could explain or excuse the torrent of abuse directed their way.

I am not sure how or why but this scene is the most memorable impression for me of the entire weekend. I partly blame Exodus and Living Waters. Before San Diego in '95 I was a regular kind of guy. Always in control, not given to public displays of emotion, etc. At this point I was so ashamed and embarrassed. I wanted to plead with them to please not mention the name of Jesus. Instead I walked up to the lesbians to try to apologize. What I wanted to say was to tell them "I am a Christian and I believe homosexual conduct is a sin (sorry Steve. had to identify my space) but I am so sorry about this. I really apologize to you, there is no excuse for this." And I think, in some form, most of that came out but I suddenly had an enormous obstruction in my throat and some vision problem due to misting in and about the eyes. As if that wasn't enough the one to whom I spoke grabbed her friends and asked me to repeat it. Just great. 

As we walked back down the sidewalk I was aware of more loud voices and remember wondering if it was directed at us. Randy told me later that our "brothers" were not too pleased with us chatting with the ladies. When we arrived I wanted to leave immediately. At this point I was ready for engagement but Randy convinced me it was time to go. He was right. As we left our "brothers" insulted us. The young lesbians smiled and waved. 


Steve Schalchlin here: For those who don't know the story, Pastor Bob was someone I knew 20 years ago when I was a young Gospel singer in a band called The Damascus Road. He did not know back then that I was struggling with homosexuality. Like many kids raised in conservative Christian homes, I knew nothing about same sex attraction except that it was "bad."

Flash forward to last year when we became reacquainted through Randy Thomas. Pastor Bob called me and reminded me of our previous relationship which I had all but erased from my memory banks. As we talked, I asked him to invite me to sing in his Southern Baptist Church again and he said, "Yes."

It was one of the most loving and generous acts I have ever been granted. They allowed me to tell my story through song -- which is mostly about my struggle with AIDS -- and they accepted me though he made it clear to the church in his opening remarks that they still believed that homosexual
behavior was a sin.

What really got me, though, was the fact that I wasn't in the building ten
minutes before he and one of his church elders asked me if they could pray for me and my illness. I think Pastor Bob is one of the most loving and incredible men I know, which is why we can joke with each other on this list.

I think, PB, that you made a wonderful impression on the lesbian couple in front of the Thomas Road Baptist Church and that they were able to see the love of Christ despite the hateful "ministers" who surrounded them, taunted them and belittled them.

Do these people really think Jesus would have treated someone that way? I'm really amazed what some people will do in the name of Christ.

Steve Schalchlin
bonusround.com



From: Pastor Bob Stith
To: "Exodus International General Discussion" 
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 18:10:00 -0600
Subject: [exodusgen-l] Re: Lynchburg Pt 2

Following my encounter with the young lesbians I attempted an apology to Bob Kunst. I discovered that while he was not as loud or virulent as Phelps, Otwell et al he was very close to a mirror image of them. He was not at all willing to hear anything from me once he discovered I was a Christian. He was only interested in identifying the entire Christian community as being cut from the same cloth as Phelps. I began to explain that very few Christians had any beliefs like those groups but quickly realized it was fruitless. I later wondered how Mr. Kunst would have liked being identified with child molesters and pedophiles. His responses to me reminded me of how Phelps had responded to Randy Thomas when Randy asked if there was a place for ex-gays. He was basically rude and dismissive. I walked away thinking the Phelps, Otwells and Kunsts of the world deserved each other and wouldn't it be delicious to lock them all up together? 

Something kept nagging at the corners of my mind during this time. I believe it was the next day when I identified this as the prompting of the Spirit of God questioning why I did not have the same compassion for these men that I did for the young girls. Intellectually I felt that I could answer this but most of us know that given that kind of question we're dead in the water. I wondered if anyone on that street truly cared about either the temporal or eternal lives of anyone else on that street. And in all honesty I was realizing that at that point there were less than ten I could say that about. I was having things revealed for which I wasn't prepared. I do believe there is a time and place for righteous indignation or anger. But in all honesty I think most of my anger is rooted in my own flesh. Having spent far too much time on the wrong end of the "love the sinner, hate the sin" equation and not always keeping the two parts distinct, I often remind myself that if I am to err, it is better to err on the side of grace and mercy. 

One reporter asked what we thought Jesus would do if He was there in the midst of these demonstrations. I responded that He would either be weeping or tearing up signs. I'm not sure that even today I could say with certainty which He would have done. I know that for me there was a very pervasive sense of sadness mingled with deep anguish. When we first approached I had such a sense of evil I wanted to just leave. Later when Randy said he thought we should leave I wanted to stay and engage in some confrontations. That's when I realized Randy was right. I needed to get out of there. There was something contagious in that spirit. I had had enough exposure. 

The services the next morning provided a much needed catharsis. I had heard much about Michael Johnston both before Lynchburg and the night before when I was told of the surprise appearance at the "water banquet." I personally enjoyed his message. He wove together the elements of his story with the story of the prodigal son. I really didn't hear anything that I felt would have been offensive in and of itself. At one point he commented that "I would not have thought I would have to come to Jerry Falwells' church to wear make-up again." (a reference to the make-up required for television) To me it sounded like something Alan Chambers would say so I felt right at home. Whatever the background dynamics of his being there may have been, his demeanor and delivery were very pleasant and positive. He told of being totally convinced he was born gay. He talked about his extreme anguish and attempts to overcome through prayer and denial. It did not seem to me that he belabored this part of his story. 

The early service actually blended right into the 11:00 service with no break. At this point Randy deserted me to go sit with a gay activist reporter. This had happened several times by then so I was getting used to it. The people who moved in to sit by me were apparently members of Thomas Road. Next to them and in front of them were Soul Force visitors. During Jerry's message I watched the body and facial language of both groups and all in all the reactions were very similar. The two groups were very warm and responsive to each other.  Jerry was extremely gracious and welcoming to the Soul Force group and several times acknowledged Mel as Rev. Mel White. His message was encouraging and positive. He also made it clear that he had not changed his view that homosexual conduct was sin. Some apparently felt that he went too far in making this abundantly clear. I will comment on my take on this later. I left the service tremendously blessed and encouraged. Having read and heard some of Jerry's rhetoric in the past I was overwhelmed - not just in what he said but in how he said it. 

It was very insightful for me to see and hear much of what took place and then to see and hear it through Maggie and Steve. We also spent time with various other Soul Force delegates and listened to their take on the events. Since I didn't participate in "drinking water with sinners" my views of the private meeting were gleaned entirely from what was reported and from listening to the Soul Force people with whom we visited. These views will be in the final part of my report. 

However I do think Randy and I had a unique perspective, probably different from anyone else who was there the entire weekend. We came straight from Living Waters training. We attended the first Soul Force gathering. We spent Saturday afternoon mingling with protesters from both sides and with the news media. At night we debriefed with Maggie, Steve and other Soul Force delegates. Then on Sunday the ex-gay minister and the conservative Southern Baptist pastor and ex-gay ministry board member attended a conservative Christian church where the only people we knew were gay rights activists. 

WHAT A WEEK!!! 

pastor bob


To: "Exodus International General Discussion"
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 15:50:07 -0600
Subject: [exodusgen-l] Re: Lynchburg Pt 3 section 1

I have spent a great deal of time debating as to whether I should write my personal observations and thoughts. I have tried to examine my heart and my biases. I have tried to see how someone from Side A might see them - or some of my friends from Side B for that matter. That which follows comes from my own perspective. It is how I saw things, how I felt about them. I have tried to be as accurate in the events as possible but I acknowledge others may have seen or heard differently. 

Until we arrived in Lynchburg I was not convinced this event would take place. There were too many mine fields and too many pressure groups from both sides trying to derail it. I also felt that if it did take place very little could actually be accomplished. I was convinced that both Mel and Jerry were too deeply entrenched in their respective camps to do more than stick a little toe over the line. Too many slings and arrows from both sides had been fired into "enemy camps." 

I came away initially very impressed with both Mel and Jerry and somewhat hopeful. Mel stressed to his supporters that "Jerry is a good man. He really wants to do what is right." Jerry acknowledged past words and actions that were hurtful and had Mel stand and be applauded in the main service. He consistently referred to Mel as "Reverend" Mel White. This may seem to be insulting to even mention this but I suspect there aren't a handful of well known evangelical leaders who would have used that title in that situation. All in all there is much on which to build. But minefields remain and if we are to go forward from here they must be recognized.

I don't think I have ever watched Mr. Falwells television program. I am not in any sense of the word a "follower." However I believe much of the criticism of him that I have heard is at least partially unfair. If this becomes the focus I think it has the potential to hinder future efforts. I base this not only on what I heard but what I saw reported in the media. The focus seemed to be on his past transgressions and what concessions and apologies he was willing to make. He would be watched to see how well he complied. 

I did not see the news conferences leading up to and during the event itself so I can't comment on what Mel may have said in this setting, but I heard nothing specific from that side of the aisle. This doesn't bother me personally because I have always been more interested in where someone is right now than where they were five years ago. But it lends credence to those who argue that the real intent is to get conservative Christians to change their minds entirely about homosexuality.

White was quoted in "The Roanoke Times" as saying that he holds out hope that Falwell will change his view on the sinfulness of homosexuality, and that the next time they meet they can begin "to take on the really tough issues - what is hate speech, what does the Bible really say about homosexuality." And while I was impressed with his follow-up call for peace at the Oakland National Gay and Lesbian Task Force's 12th annual Creating Change Conference, I was underwhelmed with his description of those of us who see homosexual conduct as sin. "Anti-gay religious leaders are 'victims of misinformation' ." He used the same term in talking about Jerry Falwell. 

First of all I have never seen myself as a victim. Secondly, it is difficult for me to see much hope for dialogue if it begins with the assumption that "I have correct information. You have misinformation." This is especially true for me if my information is based upon 6000 years of consistent interpretation of scripture by both Jews and Christians. Condescension is not a good start toward bridge building. Secondly, this entire line of discussion feeds the fears of those conservative Christians who see this sort of dialogue as being a cleverly contrived effort for full acceptance rather than a plea for tolerance or an end to violence. It calls into question the stated theme of the weekend. Just as conservative Christians must learn to examine how we express ourselves so that we don't use loaded or trigger words and phrases, so must gay rights supporters consider how we hear what they are saying. 

Laura Montgomery-Rutt's address to the 1998 NGLTF conference was far more bridgerly and on target. "My main point was that ex-gays are not the enemy (here she tracks with Mel), and if gays and lesbians want their life validated by the Religious Right, then we are hypocrites if we seek to invalidate the experiences of ex-gays." The latter part of her statement calls for understanding and some concesssion on both sides. Nor does she use the loaded phrase "anti- gays" to describe those who believe that homosexuality is not God's intention. If we are seeking to win a public relations war, a media war, then this terminology is understandable. If we are trying to build consensus it is an abomination. 


From: Pastor Bob Stith
To: "Exodus International General Discussion" <exodusgen-l@lists.messiah.edu>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 17:00:06 -0600
Subject: [exodusgen-l] Re: Lynchburg Pt 3, sect.2

I heard much about what Jerry did that he shouldn't have done. And what he didn't do that he should have done. Some of that has merit. I heard of Mel valiantly trying to hold his troops together in view of some of Jerry's missteps. But none of us was privy to what was going on behind the scenes with Jerry and his followers. Nor was I privy to the entire background of setting ground rules, so I can't really comment on the decision to serve water instead of food. I don't know how much, if any, discussion there was between the two leaders on this point. Even so, I personally would not have taken that approach. Nor would I, in all likelihood, have invited Michael Johnston, especially as a surprise guest. I do not mean this as a criticism of Michael. The fact is perception is important and there are many others in Exodus circles I would have recommended in that situatiion simply on the basis of perception. 

Many of those who were quick to criticize these situations sang along gleefully on Friday night when one of the verses of "This Little Light of Mine" was rendered "Ain't gonna let Falwell blow it out." Those who are familiar with the song would recognize that this is normally the verse that says "Ain't gonna let satan blow it out." Steve S. commented that he thought this was in poor taste. He was right (for a change.). How would it have been perceived if a group from Thomas Road had sung this using "Mel" or "gays" in place of Falwell? Does the fact that it was considered a closed meeting change anything? 

Finally, in regards to Falwell, some questioned his motives. I am not a fan of mega churches or mega media. But the fact is that Falwell heads a multi million dollar organization. Thousands of people count on him doing it well enough to keep their salaries coming in. His own personal security and reputation are on the line. He is clearly the leader of both Thomas Road church and its' associated ministries but those of us who have headed even small ministries and churches know that it can be suicidal to press ahead with visions that don't have broad based support from leadership. Jerry's commitment to this enterprise may well have cost him thousands of dollars, even hundreds of thousands of dollars, in support. It would also be reasonable to say that that may not have been a one-time loss. Having some understanding of evangelical empires I am absolutely amazed at what he did. My hat is off to him. I pray that he will be encouraged not only to follow through but to press forward and to encourage other evangelical leaders to step into the water. 

Yes, I know Mel faced some of the same sort of thing but at least from a financial standpoint I don't think there is a comparison. This is not intended to portray Jerry as more noble than Mel. I believe Jerry did what he did because he heard from God. In that case, he had no choice even though it may have cost him all of his followers. However I have found it far easier to cheer someone else on to make that kind of sacrifice than it is to do it myself. 

So, where do we go "beyond Lynchburg?" I would encourage much prayer that God would take these small beginnings and multiply them. I would encourage each of us to focus on the positives. I personally am grateful to have the example of what Jerry did to challenge other evangelical leaders to step out. I believe each one of us has the responsibility to use whatever opportunities we have to confront the media with the truth that the Phelps and Kunsts of the world are not the real story. (I heard one television producer exhorting his cameraman to stay focused on a particularly angry protester because "that guy is gonna blow sooner or later.") 

Actually the real story is not even the events in Lynchburg. The real story is taking place on various lists and forums all over the world. The real story is "loud Steve" and "Randy rant" taking their hands from around each others throats and placing them around each others shoulders. The real story is a grandmother who totally supports her daughter in a lesbian relationship but who has opened her heart and her mind to ex-gays and who has spent tons of time (and no small amount of money) helping to build respect across the divide. The real story is of hundreds who are continually challenging , confronting, pushing each other beyond our comfort zone, agreeing to disagree, refusing to settle for anything less than big "T" Truth whether it comes from our side or the other side. 

This is the story we must insist be told. 

Letter from a professor at  Liberty University

Lynchburg Report: Steve Schalchlin

Lynchburg Report Randy Thomas

Lynchburg Report Bob Stith

Lynchburg Report Julie Burke

I Cor:5:11

Pictures from Lynchburg

Basic Concepts of Satyagraha
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

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